Comments on: More Chip Slush Funds Please https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/ Electronics Design & Components Tech News Wed, 04 Sep 2024 16:31:58 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.2 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/wp-content/themes/ew/images/logo.gif Electronics Weekly https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/ 125 75 Electronics Design & Components Tech News By: David Manners https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529770 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 16:31:58 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529770 In reply to Mike Bryant.

Intel has two

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By: Mike Bryant https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529768 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 16:01:51 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529768 In reply to David Manners.

TSMC will always have more volumes, and I agree Intel is about a year behind. But that’s still far better than it was not that long ago during the 10nm debacle.

N3e is designed for phones which Intel doesn’t do. Intel 3 is roughly same density as TSMC N3p, the performance node which is more what Intel need for server chips, and Apple are using in the next Macs.

But both have now reached the absolute end stops on FinFET so it will be interesting to see how they compare on the Nanosheet products.

Unfortunately it looks like Intel 18A hasn’t been that good so far on prototypes delivered, but we haven’t heard much about the equivalent TSMC N2 either – it’s certainly running too late for next year’s iPhone. Plus of course both depend on ASML NA machines of which I believe they have one each.

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By: David Manners https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529764 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:39:23 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529764 In reply to Mike Bryant.

TSMC’s N3 might be comparable to Intel 4 but N3 has been in volume production for at least a year longer than Intel 4 and presumably has multiple customers and much higher volumes than Intel 4 while N3e is 25% denser than TSMC N3 and Intel 4. So there’s a fair old gap still between TSMC and Intel.

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By: Mike Bryant https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529762 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:13:58 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529762 In reply to David Manners.

Nothing in a “3nm” chip is 3nm as you well know. It’s pure marketing-speak.

Intel 3 = TSMC N3
Intel 4 = TSMC N4

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By: Mike Bryant https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529761 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:12:35 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529761 In reply to David Manners.

It is for Intel. It’s virtually the same as TSMCs N4 process which last year’s iPhones were made on so that’s only a year behind the absolute leading edge.

I believe all the equipment is suitable for Intel 3 which is the same as TSMC’s N3E which this year’s iPhones use so it can do that when the demand is there.

But Intel 3 and N3 are the end for FinFET at both places. After that you need the new NA machines, but neither company has those up and running in production.

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By: David Manners https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529756 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 11:42:05 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529756 As it happens Mike Leixlip’s best process is Intel 4 which was originally called the Intel 7nm process. While an advanced process, I don’t think you can say that 7nm is a leading edge process.

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By: David Manners https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529753 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 11:30:19 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529753 OK but the point was that the European Chips Act hadn’t delivered a leading process. And, BTW, are you sure Leixlip is running 3nm chips which is the current leading edge process?

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By: Mike Bryant https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529739 Wed, 04 Sep 2024 06:12:06 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529739 In reply to David Manners.

No it didn’t. But it’s still a European source of state of the art ICs at by far the most advanced fab in Europe. So leading edge ICs are made in Europe whereas your text implied there weren’t any.

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By: David Manners https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529707 Tue, 03 Sep 2024 20:27:18 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529707 In reply to Mike Bryant.

Most of the Leixlip money – about $11bn – came from the Apollo private equity group with a much smaller amount – less than $1bn – coming from the Irish government. I’m not sure EC money came into it,

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By: Mike Bryant https://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/mannerisms/shenanigans/more-chip-slush-funds-please-2024-09/#comment-1529704 Tue, 03 Sep 2024 18:34:48 +0000 https://www.electronicsweekly.com/?p=847599#comment-1529704 You appear to be forgetting Fab 34 at Leixlip. Fully equipped with EUV machines, these can fab the Intel 4 process which is far in excess of anything else made in Europe. I know it’s not on European soil but it is in the EU.

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